Salam!
XXX walidseas
+++ Positron
XXX
Thanks for your clarifications, there is point that i did not understand which is the following: "Quran is not the word of god. if the almighty God has given the Quran, there must be a divine sanction to write in a Book" i would be gald you explain further so that i can answer this particular point.
+++
Quran is not the word of God because God is the Father of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Quran is the word of Muhammad and his companions who wrote it down for him. When Muhammad died in 632 CE, there is not a single complete Quran but there are at least 3 incomplete codices or 3 Quranic manuscripts. Why 3 Books? Because there was no command from Allah that is the name of Muslim God and is not a title to mean "God". God is ilah in Arabic. If you check on the history of how Muhammad claimed to receive the revelation from Allah, the spirit is not Gabriel but a jiin (Fallen Angel, one of the created beings who was cast out of Heaven by God) who told Muhammad things which contradict with the Gospel of JESUS. You can check the whole Quran and look for the command of Allah to Muhammad as whether or not he told Muhammad to write down all the revelations in a Book or not? NO, there is no such command. So how did Quran come about? It was the works of men like Zaid bin Thabit and Caliph Uthman. Caliph Uthman issued decree to burn all other Qurans such as Ibn Masud Codex/ Quran and Ibn Kab Codex/ Quran. These 2 Qurans were already publicly being used in Kufa and territory under their influence. Why were these Qurans burnt when Zaid Codex also differs from these older Qurans???
XXX
You said that Quran is not the word of god, and so you are putting the person who brought it and who claimed himself a prophet as a subject of critisime, and so from your vision he is a liar. but the liar would chose the easiest way for his lie to be belived as his aim is to gether the maximum of belives around him, If the prophet Mohamad the blessing and peace of allah be upon him was a liar he would say that Jesuss is god and his son inspite this contradiction HOW IS IT POSSIBLE HE COULD BE TE SON AND THE GOD AT THE SAME TIME, how could he be the Father of himself and the god of himself as well???
+++
The criterion of a true prophet based on the Quran is stated in Surah 3:81. There are 2 basic conditions mentioned in this Surah 3:81 that is first of all, the new prophet must confirm the written scripture of the prophets before him and that the practising Prophet have to help him or train and confirm his service for Allah. Did Muhammad have any practising Prophet to help or train him perfectly well?
Muhammad recited Surah 3:81 "When Allah made COVENANT with the PROPHETS,: "Behold that which I have given you of the SCRIPTURE and knowledge. And AFTERWARD there will come unto you a Messenger, CONFIRMING that which ye (practising prophet)possess."???
Quran 3:81 (P) When Allah made COVENANT with the PROPHETS: "Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a Messenger, CONFIRMING that which ye possess. Ye (practising Prophet) shall believe in him and ye shall help him.
Under the Law of God, all prophets must be anointed by another prophet or priest anointed by God unless Jehovah God anointed the new prophet Himself.
Exo 29:7 (God said to Moses) "Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.
Exo 29:8 And thou shalt bring his sons, and put coats upon them.
Exo 29:9 And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons.
Exo 30:31 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be a holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations.
Prophet Moses was witnessed by Prophet Aaron. So there is always another Prophet or God personally to witness to the Prophet.
Exo 6:12 And Moses spoke before Jehovah, saying, Behold, the sons of Israel have not listened to me. How then shall Pharaoh hear me, since I have lips that are not circumcised?
Exo 6:13 And Jehovah spoke to Moses and to Aaron (simultaneously), and gave them a charge to the sons of Israel, and to Pharaoh king of Egypt, to bring the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt.
Exo 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a God (Elohim) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy Prophet.
Exo 7:2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
Lord JESUS was anointed by the Spirit of God personally and witnessed by Prophet John the Baptist.
Mat 3:14 But John (the Baptist) restrained Him, saying, I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?
Mat 3:15 And answering Jesus said to him, Allow it now, for it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed Him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
So the baptism of water is similar to the anointing oil used by Prophet Moses to anoint Aaron. But Muhammad has no one to confirm his prophethood because he was a false prophet. Not an omission of God to send a prophet to anoint him but He did not appoint Muhammad at all.
XXX
and he said that in one Hadith: "if Jesuss was the son of god i would be the first to belive in him"
The Quran is the word of god and it is a languestic merical: NONE COULD SAY SOMETHING ALIKE and when you read it with an arabic tangue you will understand this because the translation in english or to the other languages cannot be perfect to reflect the meanings and the expressions as it should be.
+++
Muhammad was not a believer of God the Father of Jesus. Muhammad believed in a god who is not a Father and has no son. Which of the 99 names of Allah mean he is the Father??? Before you believed that the words of Muhammad come from the same God of the Christians, you have to prove that Allah is Jehovah. Jehovah is the Name of the God of Abraham and He is known by this Name alone. Elohim, Adonai are only titles for Jehovah (YHVH); His real Name is only one Name YHVH.
God can speak and understand all languages of the world. To boast that you Allah can speak perfect Arabic does not prove that he is Jehovah to me at all.
XXX
Quran Does not contain contradictions as in the holly bible that i m regarding it as My book as well because i cannot be muslim and god would not accept me as muslim if i dont belive in the bible
+++
Now the problem is that you do not belive in the Gospel of Jesus compiled as 4 Books inside the Holy Bible. I do not ask you to believe all the 66 Books of the Holy Bible. Just put aside the 39 Books of the OT which were written in Hebrew to the Hebrews before the Christians ever exist on earth. We have 27 Books for the NT (New Covenant/Testament). Only 4 Books out of 27 Books are collectively known as The Gospel of Jesus. Do you believe in the words of Prophet Jesus the Son of God?
XXX
this is among the criteria of being muslim- the contradiction found in the Bible are countless and that is due to the number of writers and it is not a contradiction from god:
+++
There is no real contradiction in the Gospel of Jesus. You are confused that the Holy Bible is treated as the Gospel of Jesus. Because Jesus the Messiah only came to earth to preach around 29CE to 33CE, let us narrow the discussion to only Books found in the first 4 Books of the New Testament (NT) as the centre message of Jesus the Messiah is found in His teachings and not in the Old Testament (OT). As you believe in stages of revelations, you can then examine all the words of Jesus in the Gospel of Jesus recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
XXX
Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
+++
Jacob was the father of Joseph based on the bloodline of Joseph's forefather.
Heli was the father-in-law of Joseph or the father of Mary. Under Jewish culture, the father-in-law is also treated as "father". Even today some people call father-in-law as "father".
XXX
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
+++
Jesus and His Father are one of the same nature, same will, same words, same works, same authority, same glory and same throne. Jesus sits at the right side of His Father's throne in Heaven; one throne of God in Heaven.
"For my Father is greater than I" means God the Father is greater than Jesus in term of position or importance and responsibilities. While Jesus was physically on earth, His Father's position was higher up in Heaven. So Jesus have to return to His Father to sit at His Father's throne. When Jesus returned to His Father's throne, His position would be restored to his original glory which He had before the world was created.
Jesus did not say my Father is superior than I.
John 10:29 Jesus said: "For my Father, who gave [them] to me, is greater than all; nor can any pluck from my Father's hand.
10:30 I and my Father are One (equal nature).
10:31 And again the Jews took up stones, to stone him.
Notes: The Jews understood the idiom of Jesus because He claimed to be equal with His Father.
"For my Father, who gave to me, is greater than all ..."
"Greater" does not mean "superior". God the Father is greater in position and not greater in nature. Similarly your father is greater than you, does not mean you are a human being and your father is divine or God! Similarly Jesus' Father is Jehovah God and Jesus is equal in nature to His Father God.
XXX
Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
+++
The first man is Adam. In the Book of Genesis Chapter 1, it is a chronological narration of the order of re-creation of God. The earth was already there (Genesis 1:1) but was formless and needed to be recreated.
Genesis Chapter 2 is about the creation of the first man in greater details; the focus was on Adam and Eve and not about the order of creation. In other words, Genesis Chapter 2 is not a chronological narration but a summary of the historical records of the re-creation.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."
When God said these words in Genesis 2:18, was the first man Adam already created? Read the words again "I will make him (Adam) an help meet or helper for him (Adam)" So Adam was already created by God and it was Eve who was later created after all the beast or animal of the earth had been created on Day 5 but there was no a suitable partner for Adam.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Both Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day as the 7th day was a Sabbath Day to Jehovah.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
XXX
How many stalls and horsemen?
1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
+++
Now you have to understand that the Books for 1st Kings and Chronicles in the Old Testament were written over 1000 years before the paper was invented. Those manuscripts written on animal skins have limited lifespan and need to be recopied after the parchments had deteriorated. The Book of First Kings was written by Prophet Jeremiah around 822B.C. while the Book of Chronicles was written by Prophet Ezra around 430BC.
Now each chariot needs 2 horses or more horses to pull the cart. The original chariot was a fast, light, open, two or four-wheeled conveyance drawn by two or more horses hitched side by side. As there were 12K horsemen, there would be at least 12K chariots. And 12,000 x 4 horses each = 48,000 horses. So we can determine that 40,000 stalls in 1st Kings is correct. The Book of Chronicles is also correct in its original text but as copyist error may have been made in the past. The best part is that the later copyists do not simply change the word of the scripture but just let it be. So it is for the readers of the scripture to use wisdom and seek guidance from God who inspired the authors to write the scripture. The other explanation for the alleged discrepancy is as follows:-
Quote
(Category: copyist error, or misunderstood the historical context)
There are a number of ways to answer these puzzling differences.
Likely copyist error due to thousands of years of recopying when ink faded. The most plausible is the decadal number has been rubbed out or distorted due to constant use. In view of 12K horsemen, it is likely 40K stalls for horses and chariots
These 2 Books 1 Kings and 2 Chronicles were written by different authors namely Jeremiah and Ezra respectively. It is possible that the stalls mentioned in 2 Chronicles were large ones that housed 10 horses each (that is, a row of ten stalls). Therefore 4,000 of these large stalls would be equivalent to 40,000 small ones.
Another commentator maintains that the number of stalls recorded in 1 Kings was the number at the beginning of Solomon's reign, whereas the number recorded in 2 Chronicles was the number of stalls at the end of his reign. We know that Solomon reigned for 40 years; no doubt, many changes occurred during this period. It is quite likely that he reduced the size of the military machine his father David had left him.
Unquote
If you would like to discuss further on the alleged Biblical contradictions, it is advisable that you make a good study of over 444 contradictions which have been answered before making any new comment about it. Answers can be found at this website:
http://kingdavid8.com/Contradictions/Home.html
Another 101 Bible Contradictions have been cleared by Christian authors. There are 101 contradictions first compiled by Shabbir Ally and these have been answered as posted from this website:
http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm
Answer to contradiction in Genesis & other books can be also be found at
http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/answered/answered.htm
I have responsed with 70 contradictions in the Quran which some of these contradictions can never be explained away by words of men. Not every answer given by Muslims can be accepted no matter how hard one can try to answer it. You can try to answer some of the Quran contradictions posted from my video clip. It has been replayed over 10,000 times but no satisfactory answers have been posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp5pSUZncZ0&feature=related
So how can you convince me that Quran is from God the Father of Jesus???
XXX
i would appreciate you check these verses and explain these contradictions and how do you want me to understand them
+++
As I have shown to you in truth that there is no contradiction in the Holy Bible because to prove contradiction really existed in the Holy Bible you have to bring the original text, first written in Hebrew in respect of discrepancy in figures. The translated word in English may lost the original meaning for certain difficult passages in the Bible and readers have to refer to the Hebrew Texts before pointing it out as an error or contradiction.
Clear Discrepancy in Quran vs. Gospel.
How long Zachariah was uable to speak to his people? Quran 3 nights (Sura 19:10) versus Gospel (Luke 1:63-64) 9 months
Surah 3:81 says a new prophet will be confirming the scripture given to prophets before him. So Muhammad failed the criterion in Surah 3:81 as Quran's 3 nights is contradicting with the Gospel of about 9 months dumbness of Zechariah.
The Gospel says (until John the Baptist was born): Luke 1:63-64 And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marveled all. And his mouth was opened immediately, and his tongue loosed, and he spake, and praised God.
VERSUS,
Quran says 3 NIGHTS
Surah 19:10 He said: My Lord! Appoint for me some token. He said: Thy token is that thou, with no bodily defect, shalt not speak unto mankind three nights.
Comments: Sura 3:3 is a false revelation because Quran contradicts with the Gospel and not confirming it
Quran 3:3 (Yusuf Ali)
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
Quran 3:3 (Pickthal)
He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.
After all, Quran is not a Book of final authority as it was written basically to confirm the words of the scripture of the Torah and the Gospel but it was never intended to supersede those earlier books.
Now where is the Book of Abraham and the Scripture of Ishmael that Quran makes mention of those 2 Books?
The Book of Moses existed even after 4,000 years.
The Gospel of Jesus existed for almost 2,000 years.
The Quran exists for less than 1,400 years.
The Books of Abraham & Ishmael which Quran mentions about them has never exist till today!!! So Quran is a false Book of men and not from God because the words of Almighty God is always true and not that it was true before but today can become false because men destroy his Book. No, it is not God's Book, it is the Book of Abraham which Quran makes mention of it. If Quran is from God, then the Book of Abraham which is from a Prophet must exist till today. So Quran is from the words of men. Why? Because God never tell lie; His words is always true; in the past, today and forever.
Num 23:19 God is not a man that He should lie, neither the son of man that He should repent. Has He said, and shall He not do it? Or has He spoken, and shall He not make it good?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah, if the thing does not follow nor come to pass, that is the thing which Jehovah has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.
In conclusion, my God Jehovah has confirmed that Quran is not from Him because He has not spoken the false words about the Book of Abraham and the Scripture of Ishmael mentioned in the Quran.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
No comments:
Post a Comment