Sunday, July 5, 2009

Debate: Is Allah the same as Jehovah???

Response to  Raginggaijin

XXX  Raginggaijin
>>> Positron

Positron >>>"What is "royal plural" DOES NOT exist in the vocabulary of GOD. You are merely playing around with words. You cannot count the number of person mentioned in Surah 3:43-45 which is more than one angel. Gabriel is singular as He and never mentioned as "angels"!!!

XXX
Allah clearly tells us:
"Surely We have revealed it -- an Arabic Quran -- that you may understand." Surah 12:2
"And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment in Arabic, and if you follow their low desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you shall not have against Allah any guardian or a protector." Surah 13:37

The Quran follows Arabic construction, therefore 'angels' is royal plural.
As well, in all cases Mary, mother of Isa (pbuh), is only speaking to a single angel. That in itself should be clear to an alert reader.

Positron >>>: "Secondly Surah 3:3 says it is CONFIRMING the Torah and the Gospel of Jesus. This Gospel is kept by them Christians as Surah 7:157 mentioned about it. So what did the Gospel say about the angel Gabriel who come to Joseph. Gabriel is "angel of the Lord" and not "angels""

XXX
Confirm:
To establish the truth, accuracy, validity, or genuineness of; corroborate; verify:
Verify:
to prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm; substantiate; to prove or confirm.

So the Quran is the Truth, verifying what is true in previous Books and confirming they come from Allah.

A dictionary is your friend if English is not your primary tongue.


>>>
Your argument on "royal plural" will answer the plural "angels" for verse Surah 3:42-45 but proving your allah is double-minded to utter "angel" singular for the same angel in Surah 19:17-21.  Hahahahaha..... You are merely slapping your own face.

a. How many Angels talked to Mary:

1.  One angel came to her. Surah 19:17-21

2.   Several angels came to her. Surah 3:42,45


Conclusion is that you have never answered the contradiction but merely playing around with words. Furthermore the verse is plagiarized from the Christian writing.


Positron >>> "God did not create heavens and earth in 6 days but in the very beginning. Allah is a false god who did not even know how to count the number of days."

XXX
Your Bible, full of errors, says one thing.
The Quran, with zero errors, says another thing.

Guess which Book I'm going to go with! :D

Positron >>> COMMENTS: Obviously Surah 3:3 is proven false when Surah 32:4 of "6 Days" does not CONFIRM the "beginning" of creation in Genesis 1:1. This alone shall be adequate to refute the words in Quran as the words of a false pagan god."


XXX
Confirms your Book was changed, most assuredly. Confirms you have the wrong Creation story too. :)


>>>
You are just proving that you allah is a liar by saying "Confirms your Book was changed, most assuredly."

You lied about your book is confirming the Torah and the Gospel as you can see the days of creation of heavens (universe) and the earth in the Quran is 6 Days whereas the Torah says "in the beginning" Genesis 1:1. Is that confirming or contradicting? Can you check your dictionary!!!

Thank you for proving that you allah is a liar by saying "Confirms your Book was changed, most assuredly." Yeshua said: "By their fruits you shall know them." So you are a liar and your allah is a liar. You and allah are both liars who shall be cast to hell-fire for eternity unless you repent by renouncing all those lies and follow Yeshua who is of superior faith, refer to Surah 3:55.

See what your Muhammad said about the Torah and the Gospel that you proved your allah is a liar and a pagan god!!! WOW! Thank you so much. By your saying "Confirms your Book was changed, most assuredly." you have proved the following verses are lies of your allah:-

Surah 5:44 Pickthal
Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.


Surah 5:47 Pickthal
Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.


Surah 5:48 Pickthal
And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it [Quran], and a watcher over it [Quran]. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee.

Surah 3:55 Pickthal
(And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee ABOVE those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.


Surah 3:55 Yusuf Ali
Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Surah 5:46  Pickthal
And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).

Surah 5:110 Pickthal
When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the GOSPEL

Surah 7:157  Pickthal
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the GOSPEL (which are) with them.

Surah 57:27  Pickthal
Then We caused Our messengers to follow in their footsteps; and We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow, and gave him the GOSPEL, and placed compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him.


CONTRADICTION between "their Lord" in Surah 5:66 versus "he" in Surah 3:3

Surah 5:66 Pickthal
If they had observed the Torah and the GOSPEL and that which was revealed unto them from Their LORD, they would surely have been nourished from above them and from beneath their feet. Among them there are people who are moderate, but many of them are of evil conduct.

Surah 3:3 Pickthal
He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the GOSPEL.


CONCLUSION:

All the above verses tell us that allah revealed the Torah and the Gospel except Surah 5:66 which allah distance himself from Jehovah as "their lord" and a contradiction within Quran. Surah 5:66 prove that allah is not Jehovah, but an impostor, a liar, a pagan god.

That allah is a liar have been confirmed by your saying "Confirms your Book was changed, most assuredly." When allah said that he revealed those scripture of the Torah and the Gospel and never at any time say that he permitted his word to be changed but you dare to blaspheme him for changing the book!!! Who are you sir???

God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34). Do not ever deceive yourself to believe that God will respect one prophet's words above another prophet. The true God will ensure truth and justice prevail in His judgment. So there is no truth to exalt one book above another book as God is no respecter of persons. You are in deep trouble to say his earlier books have been changed!!! So you are living a double-standard life, a hypocrite!




3 comments:

thetruereligion said...

PART 1
Yahweh/ Jahova is a moon G_D
YHVH Means Unseen (Invisible: בלתי נראה)

The Jewish/Egyptian hallelu-jah god

The word "hallelujah" is not in the Bible

One of the false gods the Jews worshipped was Yah. This pagan idol has its roots in Babylon and in Egypt. This is the lunar or moon god. In Babylon the moon god is called "Ia" or Ya. It has both a female and a male identity. In Egypt the Babylonian female "Ia or Ya" was changed into a male god and the female god was named "shua" and made the sky god. When a person then combines these forms into Iashua or Yahshua they have made the moon god the sky god.

This Babylonian/Egypt deity is also called Baal throughout the Scriptures. The Jews did worshiped the moon god when they apostated into idolatry from the true God Ehyeh asher Ehyeh (Elohim/Adonai). Look up the word moon in Hebrew and it is "yareah" which is the same as "Yahweh." Modern Hebrew spells it different now to distort the real identity of their ancient Yah god. They now spell it "yareach." No matter, real scholars know the truth!

The Yah moon god remains controversial. Why? Because scholars are fearful to say the Jewish god Yah is the same as the Babylonian god "Ia-ya" and or the Egyptian moon god Yah. They feel this somehow may cause loss of faith in the Jews and in the true God of the Jews. They are fearful and reluctant to make this bold connection because it brings into question the tetragrammaton god YHVH or YHWH since both incorporate the "Yah" deity into their name constructions as "Yahveh or Yahweh." The evidence however is quite strong and overwhelming that Yah is an idol god.

This moon god also has the name of Thoth. It is because there are two names for this same idol that scholars can draw away attention that this moon god is Yah. This is how they do it with the word Baal also. They will not give us the real names of these Baal gods so we can observe the Jews as they moved from idol to idol and from one god to another. There were many Jewish gods. Here is a short list as we found them so far:

To be continued...

thetruereligion said...

PART 2
Baal=Num 22:41 Baal-peor=Num 25:3 Ashtoreth Jug 2:13; 2Ki 23:13 Molech=Jug 8:33 Baal-Berith=Jug 8:33 Milcom=1Ki 11:33 Baal-zebub=2Ki 1:2 Calves (Isis)=2Ki 16:16 Chemosh=2Ki 23:13 Jah or Yah=Psalms 68:4 Sun=shemesh=2 Ch 33:3; Ezek 8:16 Moon=yah=2 Ch 33:3; Ezek 8:16 Stars=ishtar=2 Ch 33:3; Ezek 8:16 Planets=astrology=2 Ch 33:3; Ezek 8:16 Remphan=Acts 7:41

The land was filled with these idols: Deut 29:26; 2Kings 17:12; 2Kings 23:24; 2Chron 24:18; Isa 2:6-8.

Because of this same idolatry the Jews were expelled from Israel: Ezk 6:4-9.

Because of this spiritual whoredom and adultery against God, Israel was divorced: Jer 3:8.

The Jews were counted by God as the seed of the adulterer and whore: Isa 57:3.

Because of these idols and the whoredom thereof, God chose a new bride... The Church replaced the whore wife who went after other gods: Isa 57:4-9.

The effects of worshipping these idol gods caused the Jewish people as a nation to be forever replaced by the New Testament Church. They must come into the Kingdom of the Messiah which is the true Israel now, or they cannot be saved! They may be Jews of flesh and the Gospel preached to them first, but they will be cut off forever as long as they remain in unbelief. While in this unbelief they have again taken up the Yah moon god of the Egyptians. This god figures in their tetragrammaton gods YHVH and YHWH each of which as said before contain the "Yah" identity!

Scholars are very good at corrupting the truth on all this including the Yah idol. They have no other reason to fabricate their falsehoods except to keep condemnation from the Jews and from their tetragrammaton guess names. No amount of denial and no amount of perverting the facts will take away the truth. This pagan Yah idol was not the original God of the Jews. This Yah idol is not the God of creation. This Yah idol is not the God Abraham believed in and it was counted to him for righteousness. This Yah idol is a Baal god and the sooner we acknowledge this the quicker the Jews can return to the true God and let him heal their sins. So long as we participate in this massive perversion we are guilty of idolatry. We cannot worship this Yah idol god. We cannot place this idol's name into our names and we dare not continue the massive fraud of translating "yh" into "yah"

Hallelu is the Hebrew word for "praise be." Alhamdu Arabic "praise be"

Yah is the name of the Jewish/Egyptian moon god.

Therefore hallelu-jah is a praise to the moon god. Yah is the hallelu-jah god!

The words "hallelu-yah" and "hallelu-jah" are not in your Bible!


Eleleu-ih or Alleluia (Praise Yah) in Revelation chapter 19?

The name of the Unseen Deity is in (Armaic: Alaha)Avram spoke Armiac, YHVH the Unseen refers to Avram and Avram called Him Alaha (Allah) See continuation of the answer Eheye asher eheye... the Unseen Lord says to Moses I am the Lord of Avram, Isac etc... i.e. Alaha (Allah)

Reference Rabi Inoc Hebrew and Arabic speaking

Nothing but the Truth said...

Deu 6:4 Hear, O, Israel. Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.
Zec 14:9 And Jehovah shall be King over all the earth; in that day there shall be one Jehovah, and His name shall be ONE. (MKJV)
The true God is known as Yehovah or YHVH and He has one Name JEHOVAH, neither Allah nor Yah.

Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, JEHOVAH (YHVH) the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My Title from generation to generation.


There is no way to disprove the Divinity of JESUS the Messiah unless He says "I am created or made by God My Father". All other words and works of JESUS just show He is a perfect Man and perfectly Divine as His 2 titles: The Son of Man and the Son of God gives Him the sanction of dual natures. His Divinity is intact when He came down to earth from Heaven, for he said "I came out from God" (John 16:27) and He has seen His Father God (John 8:38).


JESUS has His own power and authority:
John 10:17 JESUS said "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I might take it again.
John 10:18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down from Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. I have received this commandment from My Father. (MKJV)

JESUS is the co-owner of all things and words from His Father.
John 16:15 "All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and will announce it to you.
John 16:16 A little while and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to the Father.


JESUS meant "His Father's Hand is the same as His Hand as they are One of equal authority".
John 10:28 "And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
John 10:29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
John 10:30 I and the Father are ONE (SAME NATURE & AUTHORITY)

John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, I have shown you many good works from My Father; for which of these do you stone Me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because you, being a man, make yourself God.


John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, "I said, You are gods (Elohim)?
Joh 10:35 "If He called those gods (Elohim) with whom the Word of God was, and the Scripture cannot be broken,
Joh 10:36 "do you say of Him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, You blaspheme, because I said, I am the Son of God?



Source:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/Deuter6.html

Deutronomy 6:4-5 HaShem= YHVH

4 HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE HaShem OUR GOD, THE HaShem IS ONE.

5 And thou shalt love HaShem thy G-d with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

THE YHVH OUR GOD, THE YHVH IS ONE.
In other words, Our Elohim is one YHVH.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O, Israel. Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.
Zec 14:9 And Jehovah shall be King over all the earth; in that day there shall be one Jehovah, and His name shall be one.


Conclusion: God is one YHVH and not God is one???
Jesus is also One YHVH for He said "I and my Father are ONE" (John 10:30)

Christians worship God the Father of Jesus whom He told his disciples is God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel.