Saturday, July 4, 2009


Rsponse to   raginggaijin

XXX   raginggaijin
>>> Positron66

positron666 quoted: "John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Notice how he ignores 'This commandment have I received of my Father' to base his claim Isa (pbuh) is God?

Which words are clearer???
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

"This commandment have I received of my Father."

Did "This Commandment or Law have I received of my Father" make Yeshua inferior than His Father??? No, the earlier words of Yeshua are crystal clear that He has His own POWER. For Yeshua to associate that God is His Father clearly identified Himself as equalled to God.
John 5:17  But Jesus said to them: My Father worketh until now, and I work.
John 5:18  And for this, the Jews sought the more to kill him, not only because he had broken the sabbath, but because he had said of GOD, that he was his Father, and had equalled himself with GOD.
[Murdock, Aramaic Translation]

Yeshua have to identify Himself that He is sent by His Father otherwise his people will be confused as there are 2 Gods. Yeshua came down from Heaven to proclaim works of His Father and not His own works.

These words of Yeshua confirm that He and His Father are of one will, one deeds and one Glory.

John 5:30  I CANNOT of the will of myself do any thing; but as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just; for I seek not my will, but the will of Him who sent me. [Etheridge]

1. JESUS has His own power (John 10:18) to empower his disciples. Luke 10:19 JESUS said: "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you." Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my Name shall they cast out devils

2. JESUS spoke in greater authority than Scribes and Moses. Mark 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes. Moses could not even spoke with authority and his brother Aaron was made a prophet for him. Yet Moses was made a God to Pharaoh by LORD GOD. JESUS was made GOD in similitude to MOSES. Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a God to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Deuteronomy 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, LIKE UNTO THEE, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. John 10:34 JESUS answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, "Ye are Gods."

3. JESUS had the Glory of God that is not given but eternal. John 17:5 And now glorify thou me, my Father, with thyself, in that glory which I HAD with Thee before the world was. Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my Name: and my GLORY will I NOT give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of His glory:

4. JESUS was not created but came through virgin birth; He is called The Son of God as He was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God and not in the similitude of Adam created from the dust of the ground. John 10:36 do ye say to him, whom the Father, hath sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said to you, I am the Son of God? Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, 'The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of 'The Son of GOD'."

5. JESUS shall return in His own power and great glory to rule the earth. Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in His Glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his Glory:

6. JESUS shall be the Chief Judge on the Day of Judgment. Mat 25:32 And before Him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats Mat 25:41 Then shall HE say also unto them on the Left Hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into Everlasting Fire, prepared for the Devil and his Angels

7. JESUS is GOD as LORD Almighty called Him GOD just as LORD made Moses a GOD! Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a God to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. John 10:35 [JESUS said] If He called "them Gods", unto whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken

8. JESUS accepts worship from men and women. Mat 28:9 And lo, JESUS met them, and said to them: Hail, ye. And they came and clasped his feet, and worshipped him. Blind man healed by JESUS worshipped Him: John 9:38 And he said: My Lord, I believe: and he fell down, and worshipped him.

9. JESUS was sanctified by God and was set apart as holy and sinless. Only GOD is sinless and Holy. John 10:36 do ye say to him, whom the Father, hath sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said to you, I am the Son of God?

10. JESUS is GOD as He could forgive sins on earth which the Scribes testified that no man can, except God only! Mark 2:7 Who can forgive sins but GOD only? Mark 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of Man hath POWER on earth to forgive sins

11. JESUS says His Father is GOD and equaled himself with GOD. John 5:17 But JESUS said to them: My Father worketh until now, and I work. John 5:18 And for this, the JEWS sought the more to kill him, not only because he had broken the Sabbath, but because he had said of God, that he was his Father, and had equalled himself with GOD.

12. JESUS did not deny to the charge for claiming Himself as God. Quoting the Law in John 10:34-35 was to defend himself and not to deny the charge. John 10:33 The JEWS answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a MAN, makest thyself GOD.

Why did Jesus appear as a gardener if he was spirit? A spirit cannot die again, so nothing physical would harm him if he were spirit; he could walk where he pleased. John 20:15, Luke 24:16,31
Yet Jesus hid himself from danger. Luke 4:29-30, Luke 24:31


Of course Yeshua came in the Flesh as a perfect man as those who did not confess so shall be labeled as anti-Christs.
1John 4:3  And every spirit which confesseth not that Jesus the Messiah hath come in the flesh, is not of God; but he is of the false Messiah, of whom ye have heard that he cometh, and now is he already in the world.

1Jn 4:15  Whoever confesseth Jesus to be the Son of God, God abideth in him, and he abideth in God.
1Jn 4:16  And we have believed and known the love, which God hath towards us: for God is love, and whoever abideth in love, abideth in God.

1Jn 5:10  Whoever believeth in the Son of God, hath this testimony in himself. And whoever believeth not God, hath made him a liar, by not believing the testimony which God hath testified concerning his Son.
1Jn 5:11  And this is the testimony, that God hath given to us life eternal, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12  Every one that taketh hold of the Son, taketh hold of life; and every one that taketh not hold of the Son, hath not life.
1Jn 5:13  These things have I written to you, that ye may know that ye have life eternal, ye who believe in the name of the Son of God.
1Jn 5:20  And we know that the Son of God hath come, and hath given us knowledge that we might know the True One; and that we might be in the True One, in his Son Jesus the Messiah; He is the true God, and the life eternal.

Yeshua did not appear as a gardener but it was the emotional Mary Magdalene who had mistaken Him even though the angel assured her that He was risen.

Mark 16:6  But he said to them: Be not affrighted. Ye are seeking Jesus the Nazarean, who was crucified. He is risen; he is not here. Behold the place where he was laid.
Mar 16:7  But go, tell his disciples and Cephas: Lo, he precedeth you into Galilee; there will ye see him, as he said to you.
Mar 16:8  And when they heard, they fled and left the sepulchre; for astonishment and trembling had seized them; and they said nothing to any one, for they were in fear.
Mar 16:9  And in the morning of the first day of the week, he arose; and he appeared first to Mary Magdalena, from whom he had cast out seven demons.  [Murdock]

Yeshua was called "O God" in Hebrew 1:8 before He came to the world in the manner of a man so that He can die for the sins of the mankind. He concealed His eternal Glory by the veil of His Flesh.

Heb 1:1  In many ways, and many forms, God anciently conversed with our fathers, by the prophets:
Heb 1:2  But in these latter days, he hath conversed with us, by his Son; whom he hath constituted heir of all things, and by whom he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3  who is the splendor of His GLORY, and the IMAGE of Himself, and upholdeth all by the Energy of His word; and by Himself he made a purgation of sins, and sat down on the Right Hand of the Majesty on High.
Heb 1:4  And he is altogether Superior to the Angels, as he hath also inherited a name which excelleth theirs.

Heb 1:5  For to which of the angels did God ever say, "Thou art my SON, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
Heb 1:6  And again, when bringing the first begotten into the world, he said: "Let all the angels of God worship him."
Heb 1:7  But of the angels he thus said: Who made his angels a wind, and his ministers a flaming fire.
Heb 1:8  But of the Son he said: "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; a righteous sceptre is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Heb 2:7  Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honor, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9  But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Heb 2:10  For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11  For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12  Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

Why would the tomb need to be opened if Jesus were resurrected in spirit?

The entrance to the tomb was sealed by a huge stone and was heavily guarded by Roman soldiers (Matthew 27:62-66). The opening of the tomb is necessary to demonstrate that the glorious power of GOD is at work to scare off the soldiers who may hinder His disciples and apostles from witnessing the linen cloths which once covered the dead body of Yeshua.

The Shroud or linen cloth that covered the body of Yeshua is found today, speaks louder than the critics could possibly deny that He was not crucified. If this shroud was confiscated by the Roman soldiers and was destroyed, then the Christians would lose an important evidence of His crucifixion outside the Biblical account.

Now the scientific evidence of the shroud has been amazingly convincing that Yeshua was indeed crucified and died. All the blood stains on the shroud matches the description of injuries of Yeshua as narrated in the Gospel.

Why would a spirit roll up the burial shroud or place aside the bindings? Luke 24:12, John 20:5

Obviously you have misunderstood the message in the Gospel.

Now there are 2 pieces of linen cloths used for burial cloth according to the Jewish burial custom of the first century. A larger linen cloth or shroud measuring around 4.4 x 1.1m will cover from head to the feet of the dead man while the face cloth 84 x 53 cm or Sudarium will cover only the face and head.  Photo of Sudarium is found here

"Jewish tradition demands that if the face of a dead person was in any way disfigured, it should be covered with a cloth to avoid people seeing this unpleasant sight. This would certainly have been the case with Jesus, whose face was covered in blood from the injuries produced by the crown of thorns and swollen from falling and being struck.

It seems that the face cloth or sudarium was first used before the dead body was taken down from the cross. But it was not discarded when it was buried as the dead Lazarus had the linen face cloth covered his face as told in John 11:44. This fits in with what we learn from the gospel of Yeshua according to John, which tells us that the face cloth or napkin had been bound upon his head, but folded up and laid apart in one place as told in John 20:7.

The shroud laid in its original position undisturbed where the Body of Yeshua was once laid. It was the napkin that was detached from the shroud and folded up by itself. Now it was a miracle witnessed by John the Apostle who saw the burial 2 days earlier that the face cloth had bound the head of the dead Yeshua. John was amazed and recorded what he saw as the napkin became detached from the shroud and folded up by itself.

The Jewish custom for the napkin to be folded up properly and placed on the table means the man have not finished his meal and would return to the table.

So the spiritual significant for the folded up face cloth means that Yeshua would return to earth to fetch the born again Christians in the clouds (not on earth which would be destroyed by fire,) known as the Rapture! Some of the Christians who have not died shall be changed into the glorified or immortal body which will never die similar to the Body of Yeshua. The glorified body has flesh and bones and not a spirit; yet the glorified body can pass through physical wall and can become invisible like an angel.

Mat 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

1Co 15:51  Behold, I tell you the mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we all shall be changed:
1Co 15:52  suddenly, as in the twinkling of the eye, at the last Trumpet, while it calleth; and the dead will arise without corruption, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53  For this which is corruptible shall put on incorruption, and likewise (this) which dieth shall put on immortality.

1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jeshu died and arose, so also Aloha those who have slept in Jeshu will bring with him.
1Th 4:15  But this we say to you by the word of our Lord, that we who [may be] remaining at the coming of our Lord, [we] who [then may] live, will not precede those who have slept.
1Th 4:16  For our Lord himself with the mandate, and with the voice of the Chief of angels, and with the trumpet of Aloha, will come down from heaven, and the dead who are in the Meshiha will arise first;
1Th 4:17  and then we who remaining [may be] alive, shall be rapt with them together in clouds, to the meeting of our Lord in the expanse;* and so always with our Lord shall we be.[* Or, in heaven, as aar, may be understood. Compare SCHLEUSNER, sub voce, No. 2.]
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.  [Etheridge]

If a man merely fainted from crucifixion, he would not be able to remove the face cloth without removing the shroud that covered his body. So here one can imagine that it was the power of Yeshua in action where no man could remove the face cloth without removing the shroud which have linen strips bundled over it at the regions of the neck, hands and feet.

As in the case of the Lazarus raised from the dead after 4 days, he was bound at his hands and feet when he came forth the tomb at the command of Yeshua with merely 3 words "Lazarus, come out!"

John 11:43  And when he had said these (words), he cried with a high voice, Loozar, come without!
John 11:44  And he, the dead, came forth, his hands and his feet being bound with bandages, and his face in a linen cloth. Jeshu saith to them, Release him, and let (him) go. [Etheridge]

Let's examine the words of the Gospel writers in details about the linen cloths.

Luke 24:12  But Simon arose, and ran to the sepulchre, and looked in, and saw the linen lying by itself: and he went away wondering in himself at what had occurred.  [Murdock, Aramaic Translation]

John 20:5  And he [John] looked in, and saw the linen cloths lying: but he did not go in.
John 20:6  And after him came Simon; and he entered the sepulchre, and saw the linen cloths lying;
John 20:7  and the napkin, that had been wrapped about his head, was not with the linen cloths, but was folded up, and laid in a place by itself.
[Murdock, Aramaic Translation]

John clearly differentiates between this smaller face cloth, the sudarium, and the larger linen cloth or shroud that had wrapped the body of Yeshua. Both Luke 24:12 and John 20:5 mention the shroud lying undisturbed.  John 20:7 mentions the face cloth or napkin thathad wrapped upon the head of Yeshua was detached from the shroud, folded up, and laid in a place by itself.

A larger piece of linen is known as The Shroud of Turin is found and kept at Turin in Italy. The face cloth or Sudarium that is found and kept at Oviedo in Spain. Both the sudarium and shroud of Turin has same blood stains of type AB.

The Shroud of Turin has failed the Carbon 14 test basically because of the fire in 1532 which almost destroyed it. The dust of the smoke had contaminated the shroud which produced the skew data of the Carbon14 reading. But a Swiss Textile historian Flury-Lemberg had examined the shroud of Turin and testified that the Shroud was the first century linen cloth. Flury-Lemberg is not a Christian. But she merely testified that the linen of the shroud matched the quality of the linen of the first century found at Masada in Palestine. Biography of Flury Lemberg is found at

Quote about Flury Lemberg:

She first noticed that the entire cloth was crafted with a weave known as a three-to-one herringbone pattern. "This kind of weave was special in antiquity because it denoted an extraordinary quality," she says. (Less fine linens of the first century would have had a one-to-one herringbone pattern). That same pattern is present on a 12th century illustration that depicts Christ's funeral cloth, which, she says, is "extremely significant, because it shows that the painter was familiar with Christ's Shroud and that he recognized the indubitably exceptional nature of the weave of the cloth." Flury-Lemberg also discovered a peculiar stitching pattern in the seam of one long side of the Shroud, where a three-inch wide strip of the same original fabric was sewn onto a larger segment. The stitching pattern, which she says was the work of a professional, is surprisingly similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada. The Masada cloth dates to between 40 B.C. and 73 A.D. The evidence, says Flury-Lemberg, is clear: "The linen cloth of the Shroud of Turin does not display any weaving or sewing techniques which would speak against its origin as a high quality product of the textile workers of the first century."

Now Christians have good evidence from the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium that Yeshua was indeed crucified and died on the Cross.

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